View Full Version : Smoking brisket at 300 degrees tomorrow.... crazy?
SweetBlue
04-26-2017, 09:12 PM
Alright guys. After two miserable briskest cooks I'm going to get back on the horse and try it again.... one last time.
This time I pan on cooking at 300 degree temp rather than 250. I'm wondering if the prolonged low temp is drying it out?
Am I crazy? Has anyone else had success with cooking at 300? Any free advice?
ChrisBarb
04-26-2017, 09:14 PM
//www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245626
pharp
04-26-2017, 09:14 PM
Alright guys. After two miserable briskest cooks I'm going to get back on the horse and try it again.... one last time.
This time I pan on cooking at 300 degree temp rather than 250. I'm wondering if the prolonged low temp is drying it out?
Am I crazy? Has anyone else had success with cooking at 300? Any free advice?
I cook all my briskets at 300. What are you cooking it on?
SmittyJonz
04-26-2017, 09:21 PM
I run 300-325*..........at Muscrat's Father's ShinDig I bumped it up to 400-425* for last 3 hrs to get them done in time but they were panned with a lil beef broth...
Happy Hapgood
04-26-2017, 09:23 PM
Dude. I refuse the premise of your question. 300* is fine. Do not know how many Briskets you have smoked but it only took me about 18 tries to find out that I will never try to smoke a "Select Grade" Brisket again. Choice Grade or above and it has made all the difference.
Just my .02 and Good Luck.
SmittyJonz
04-26-2017, 09:24 PM
I do Wallymarts Selects All the Time........
pharp
04-26-2017, 09:25 PM
I do Wallymarts Selects All the Time........
Probably the best one I ever cooked was a marked down select from WM.
Happy Hapgood
04-26-2017, 09:26 PM
I do Wallymarts Selects All the Time........
I'm just saying that what's works for me....bitch :caked:
SmittyJonz
04-26-2017, 09:27 PM
I do wanna try CAB Brisket.........
SmittyJonz
04-26-2017, 09:30 PM
//i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u645/bobjones79/0BCF21E6-00B3-46F8-9CF0-B342A4B4E87A_zpsgoiawok1.jpg (//s1326.photobucket.com/user/bobjones79/media/0BCF21E6-00B3-46F8-9CF0-B342A4B4E87A_zpsgoiawok1.jpg.html)
lankster35
04-26-2017, 09:37 PM
I expect this will start the zingers......300 is fine if you want to cook it. If you want to smoke it probably something else.
ShadowDriver
04-26-2017, 09:46 PM
I did my last (and personal best, to date) at 300-325 with Adkins.
Big fan.
You'll do just fine, Brother. Let us know how it turns out for you.
mytmouz
04-26-2017, 09:46 PM
I do mine around that temp. No complaints... And no left overs...
Bludawg's K.I.S.S. method works well. See Post #5 at the linked thread.
//www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175804
frognot
04-26-2017, 10:15 PM
Always cook at around 300 (275-325 is my target range). I wrap at an IT of 160 - 170, (usually 3 1/2 to 4 hours) then continue to cook until it probes tender (temp usually around 205).
I mostly use foil but sometimes butcher paper for wrapping. Butcher paper gets me better bark but I'm cooking so a 92 year old will eat it so foil gets me a more tender, less smokey brisket.
KevinJ
04-26-2017, 10:17 PM
300 is a great temp to cook a Brisket imo.
SweetBlue
04-26-2017, 10:33 PM
Thanks for all the feedback! I'm feeling a lot more confident. I'll be sure to post some pictures of the results...regardless of how good it turns out :)
Oh and for those wondering. I'm cooking on an egg. The brisket (packer) is on the smaller end at just over 10lbs. My butcher had a decent deal on prime brisket so that's what I went with.
big_weight
04-26-2017, 10:53 PM
SB, I use the Vision Kamado, and have had great success at 300 using BluDawg's method.
Trust it, and focus on probe tender, not so much on IT.
Good luck.
Stlsportster
04-26-2017, 10:59 PM
By the way, surprised nobody has said this yet...if your brisket is tough and dry....you didn't cook it long enough. That is a sign of undercooking, not over cooking.
An over cooked brisket will be fall apart tender and juicy. The longer you cook the more connective tissue breaks down.
Seriously try the KISS method. 300 is still smoking temp and unless you're using a pellet pooper you'll still have plenty of smoke flavor.
Big Swole
04-27-2017, 12:17 AM
Or start Low and Slow until the stall (160* ish is where I do), wrap or not, then just ramp up the temp in the smoker to even higher (300-350) to help it finish off fast.
I just feel that the smoke penetration will be better with low / slow in the beginning. I maybe wrong, but if meat doesn't take on more smoke after around 140-160*, the my common sense would tell me the longer it stays in that temp range the better for smoke flavor.
I like Smoke flavor. So can anyone say with certainty, that the 300+ temps from beginning will give as much smoke flavor?? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Nuco59
04-27-2017, 05:49 AM
Like others, I will run 300 all day long- drum or cabinet- I prefer that temp. That being said, there is nothing negative about running 250- if you can't cook a brisket at 250, then going 300 is not going to magically make it great. Cook it until it's done. Foil, paper or naked you are looking for probe tender in the thick of the flat- you will be fine. Don't worry over it- and have some fun.
WilliamD
04-27-2017, 06:15 AM
For me it depends upon what cooker I'm using. On my cabinet, I cook it at 260-270...it's just the sweet spot where she likes to sit at with the least amount of fussing, and they come out fine...If I had a drum, I would be at 300-325. I as well will only cook Choice or Prime Grades. I know others have cooked Selects, but where I am located, Selects are TERRIBLE. Up here, I find BBQ is much like computers in that Junk In = Junk Out!
quamdar
04-27-2017, 06:22 AM
Temp of the meat >>>>> temp of smoker
I vary smoker temp based on when I want to finish. I have found it doesn't make as big of difference as I thought before I started BBQing. Main reason I even monitor smoker temp is to make sure something isn't going seriously wrong like it went out.
sleebus.jones
04-27-2017, 07:51 AM
I'm surprised the Edict (//www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136042) hasn't put in an appearance yet.
Stlsportster
04-27-2017, 07:54 AM
I'm surprised the Edict (//www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136042) hasn't put in an appearance yet.
Tru dat!
pjtexas1
04-27-2017, 08:18 AM
I like Smoke flavor. So can anyone say with certainty, that the 300+ temps from beginning will give as much smoke flavor?? It just doesn't make sense to me.
i'm beginning to think there is no way to satisfy you when it comes to smoke flavor. :heh: i cannot say if the way i cook at 300 will make you happy. i do know that some of the oldest bbq joints cook hotter and it seems to work for them. if i were you i would cook the first hour or 2 at 200 and then maybe bump it up. for me i am just way over cooking something for 10-15 hours especially if i am using a stick burner. i really cannot tell the difference. i think only you can answer the question as smoke flavor is a personal preference. in my mind what you are describing almost sounds like you want it cooked on a really dirty fire so that the smoke flavor is all you can taste. or maybe you and i like the exact same level of smoke but describe it differently. :confused:
DaveAlvarado
04-27-2017, 08:25 AM
i'm beginning to think there is no way to satisfy you when it comes to smoke flavor. :heh: i cannot say if the way i cook at 300 will make you happy. i do know that some of the oldest bbq joints cook hotter and it seems to work for them. if i were you i would cook the first hour or 2 at 200 and then maybe bump it up. for me i am just way over cooking something for 10-15 hours especially if i am using a stick burner. i really cannot tell the difference. i think only you can answer the question as smoke flavor is a personal preference. in my mind what you are describing almost sounds like you want it cooked on a really dirty fire so that the smoke flavor is all you can taste. or maybe you and i like the exact same level of smoke but describe it differently. :confused:
Rub with ashes, inject with liquid smoke, chuck it on the stick burner at 200F for 20 hours. Plenty of smoke flavor.
:laugh:
For the OP, 300F is fine. Dry brisket isn't a temperature problem, it's a doneness problem. Dry and tough is undercooked. Dry and crumbly is overcooked. It took me half a dozen briskets before I could hit edible every time and awesome half the time.
Oh, and if you're cooking at 300F, expect to rest the brisket for at least a couple hours in a cooler or something.
daninnewjersey
04-27-2017, 08:48 AM
I like Smoke flavor. So can anyone say with certainty, that the 300+ temps from beginning will give as much smoke flavor?? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Yup....I can say that with certainty. I've smoked a lot of briskets at 300+. They always have enough smoke flavor even when you're producing the thin blue smoke.
Or start Low and Slow until the stall (160* ish is where I do), wrap or not, then just ramp up the temp in the smoker to even higher (300-350) to help it finish off fast.
I just feel that the smoke penetration will be better with low / slow in the beginning. I maybe wrong, but if meat doesn't take on more smoke after around 140-160*, the my common sense would tell me the longer it stays in that temp range the better for smoke flavor.
I like Smoke flavor. So can anyone say with certainty, that the 300+ temps from beginning will give as much smoke flavor?? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Meat will take on smoke flavor for as long as the meat isn't wrapped. Now what does happen at the 140 internal temp mark is that the smoke ring will no longer form.
If you want a more smoke flavor, smoke longer with no wrapping. The smokiest flavor you will get will be cooking low and slow on a stick burner with no wrapping. Also using greener stronger woods like mesquite and hickory.
IMHO there is diminishing returns when it comes to smoke flavor (unless you are running a dirty fire) After 4-5 hours in the smoke, you really won't taste much more. Another way to ensure you are tasting smoke is to take a hot shower, clear out your sinuses, brush your teeth, and change your clothes prior to eating. When you are sitting around your pit, your sense of smell gets over saturated with the smell of smoke, which in turn makes it so you can't taste it as much. This is why if you eat your bbq the next day, you can smell and taste the smoke much better than you do the day you cook it.
Big Swole
04-27-2017, 10:41 AM
i'm beginning to think there is no way to satisfy you when it comes to smoke flavor. :heh: i cannot say if the way i cook at 300 will make you happy. i do know that some of the oldest bbq joints cook hotter and it seems to work for them. if i were you i would cook the first hour or 2 at 200 and then maybe bump it up. for me i am just way over cooking something for 10-15 hours especially if i am using a stick burner. i really cannot tell the difference. i think only you can answer the question as smoke flavor is a personal preference. in my mind what you are describing almost sounds like you want it cooked on a really dirty fire so that the smoke flavor is all you can taste. or maybe you and i like the exact same level of smoke but describe it differently. :confused:
LOL Well, I'm not sure how to describe it either but I just know I love a "smokey" flavor. Not the dirty smoke flavor though.
I'll start playing with the temps a bit then and see how it works out for me.
Meat will take on smoke flavor for as long as the meat isn't wrapped. Now what does happen at the 140 internal temp mark is that the smoke ring will no longer form.
If you want a more smoke flavor, smoke longer with no wrapping. The smokiest flavor you will get will be cooking low and slow on a stick burner with no wrapping. Also using greener stronger woods like mesquite and hickory.
IMHO there is diminishing returns when it comes to smoke flavor (unless you are running a dirty fire) After 4-5 hours in the smoke, you really won't taste much more. Another way to ensure you are tasting smoke is to take a hot shower, clear out your sinuses, brush your teeth, and change your clothes prior to eating. When you are sitting around your pit, your sense of smell gets over saturated with the smell of smoke, which in turn makes it so you can't taste it as much. This is why if you eat your bbq the next day, you can smell and taste the smoke much better than you do the day you cook it.
Yes, I've found that not wrapping does make it taste more like I want, but I run the risk of overcooking some of the thinner areas of the meat (edges).
Smoke ring is nice to have but not important as long as the smoke flavor shines though.
I 100% agree about the smoke while cooking affecting taste. Senses overload until you shower and do all the things to get it out of your system you said.
As for wrapping, I'll be trying butcher paper for the first time soon. Hoping I'll like it better than using foil.
sleebus.jones
04-27-2017, 01:04 PM
***NERD ALERT***
Stay with me on this one, the payoff is worth it...
I never really understood how "thin blue" worked, other than it worked. I ended up reading a post on another site that talked about what really gives smoked food its smoky taste and aroma. There's been a LOT of research done on this by people waaaay smarter than me (honest to God food scientists) for the mass production food industry.
Short answer is two phenols: Guaiacol (smoke flavor) and Syringol (smoke aroma). They're formed by the breakdown (burning) of Lignin, which is what gives wood its strength. A combustion temp of ~700� (NOT your pit temp!) is what you should aim for to get the best production of the above phenols. Realizing that's hard to find something that can measure that, aim for a dull red glow from your coals. Lots of dull red coals should make lots of smoke flavor and smell, even tho it doesn't seem like it's doing much. This is where the "thin blue" comes in. Lots of people know about it, I hazard a guess that fewer people actually know what it takes to get it.
So here's the part where I got smarter: When I'm cooking on a big stick burner, I can get loads of smoke flavor (too much sometimes!) even when I hardly have any unburnt wood in there...it's just all dull coals. Well, that just happens to line up about the right temp to get good production of those phenols. After I read that post, it all clicked for me...of
course I get tons of smoke flavor and smell, I have an enormous pile of coals doing it for me.
It's not the wood that's just starting to catch...that's probably more creosote than anything. Green wood may help, not from the wood itself (that's a dirty smoke) but more from cooling the other coals down. No proof on that, but thinking out loud.
Anyway, a bit of a ramble here, hopefully y'all get something out of it.
Shagdog
04-27-2017, 01:14 PM
I second the part about doneness. It sounds like your problem is more in knowing when the brisket is done than at what temp you cook it. 200, 250, 300, 325. Any/all will produce an end result that is virtually the same (even the amount of smoke flavor) The big difference will be how long it takes you to cook. Lower temps will result in a more even product (at 300 you will find some overcooked parts on the edges when the center is perfect) Lower temps will also give you a bigger window of when a brisket is "done" Which is why most cook books and beginner manuals recommend low and slow temps. Its much easier to get it right at 225, you just have to wait twice as long. If the perfection window at 225 is 2 hours, its probably 30-60 minutes (or less) at 300.
Tough and dry, you didn't cook it long enough. Crumbly is overcooked. Take your instant read thermo,and start poking the brisket in the thickest parts of the flat. Heck, I poke mine all over to get an idea of how far along it is. You will start noticing it in the point and outer edges of the flat first. The probe just slides in, no resistance. When you have a feeling like this throughout the thicker parts of the flat, the brisket is done. don't worry about the temp. Finish temp will vary depending on what temp you are cooking at. at 225 it will finish around 200-205, where at 300 it can be at 212-218. Just go by the feel. When you can slide that probe through the meat at the thick part of the flat without any resistance, you're there. Let it rest for at least 30 minutes, longer is better.
PorkinButts82
04-27-2017, 01:25 PM
//i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u645/bobjones79/0BCF21E6-00B3-46F8-9CF0-B342A4B4E87A_zpsgoiawok1.jpg (//s1326.photobucket.com/user/bobjones79/media/0BCF21E6-00B3-46F8-9CF0-B342A4B4E87A_zpsgoiawok1.jpg.html)
Is that from Wally world?!
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
LOL Well, I'm not sure how to describe it either but I just know I love a "smokey" flavor. Not the dirty smoke flavor though.
I'll start playing with the temps a bit then and see how it works out for me.
Yes, I've found that not wrapping does make it taste more like I want, but I run the risk of overcooking some of the thinner areas of the meat (edges).
Smoke ring is nice to have but not important as long as the smoke flavor shines though.
I 100% agree about the smoke while cooking affecting taste. Senses overload until you shower and do all the things to get it out of your system you said.
As for wrapping, I'll be trying butcher paper for the first time soon. Hoping I'll like it better than using foil.
Try using wood that is a little bit greener than you are used too if you like the stronger smokier flavors without scorching the edges of the meats. Also use wood such as hickory or mesquite since they produces a more pronounced smoke.
m-fine
04-27-2017, 02:05 PM
I usually do briskets between 250 and 325. I like to start lower which helps with smoke ring, warming more evenly and extending time in smoke. I then raise the temp to get it done without too much time expiring. I like to try and keep the time on the fire under 12 hours in the stick burner, so bigger pieces means higher temp. If I want it done well under 12 hours that is another reason to go hotter or start hotter.
daninnewjersey
04-27-2017, 02:06 PM
[QUOTE=Big Swole;3780391 As for wrapping, I'll be trying butcher paper for the first time soon. Hoping I'll like it better than using foil.[/QUOTE]
If you wrap, that's the only way to do it...in my opinion. It keeps the bark happy and you don't get that pot roast effect that foil can sometimes produce....
smoke ninja
04-27-2017, 02:22 PM
Every time i hear start low and finish high i cry on the inside. Ive put alot of effort into brisket and have determined the opposite to be more effective at producing good, consistent results. :sad:
m-fine
04-27-2017, 02:40 PM
Every time i hear start low and finish high i cry on the inside. Ive put alot of effort into brisket and have determined the opposite to be more effective at producing good, consistent results. :sad:
Definitely not my experience at all. What exactly are you seeing as a difference that you don't like?
jasonjax
04-27-2017, 02:47 PM
If you wrap, that's the only way to do it...in my opinion. It keeps the bark happy and you don't get that pot roast effect that foil can sometimes produce....
Retaining the juice to lay the slices in has become a big part of my process so I'm not sure how butcher's paper would work for me unless I wrapped in paper and kept the meat in a foil pan.
pjtexas1
04-27-2017, 03:01 PM
Retaining the juice to lay the slices in has become a big part of my process so I'm not sure how butcher's paper would work for me unless I wrapped in paper and kept the meat in a foil pan.
if you don't poke a whole in the bottom of your bp there should be some juices in there. not as much as foil. i say keep using the foil. don't let us break something that works for you. foil can work without making pot roast if you do it right.
smoke ninja
04-27-2017, 03:23 PM
Definitely not my experience at all. What exactly are you seeing as a difference that you don't like?
Hot gives such a small window of perfection. As little as 15 min. The key to cooking hot is a loooooong rest. Often this step is missed or botched. Cooking hot to start (an hr or 2 low at first to kick of that smoke ring) renders fat and gets the bark reaction going. Finished at a lower temp gives a large timing window and a lower internal temp. You would be amazed how moist a slice of flat can be with a finish temp of 195. Near fall apart tender too.
//i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20170423_122059_zpstho4v7vd.jpg (//s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20170423_122059_zpstho4v7vd.jpg.html)
//i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20170423_122019_zpsoqvmvkck.jpg (//s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20170423_122019_zpsoqvmvkck.jpg.html)
Stlsportster
04-27-2017, 04:28 PM
So you are saying low(250 for 2 hours to get smoke) then hot(300-325 for 3-4 hours to get bark and render fat) then low again(back down to 250 for the finish until probe tender)?
I'm corn-fused.
m-fine
04-27-2017, 04:43 PM
Hot gives such a small window of perfection. As little as 15 min. The key to cooking hot is a loooooong rest. Often this step is missed or botched. Cooking hot to start (an hr or 2 low at first to kick of that smoke ring) renders fat and gets the bark reaction going. Finished at a lower temp gives a large timing window and a lower internal temp. You would be amazed how moist a slice of flat can be with a finish temp of 195. Near fall apart tender too.
//i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20170423_122059_zpstho4v7vd.jpg (//s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20170423_122059_zpstho4v7vd.jpg.html)
//i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/brisket/20170423_122019_zpsoqvmvkck.jpg (//s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/brisket/20170423_122019_zpsoqvmvkck.jpg.html)
So if I am following correctly...
You start low for a couple of hours to let the ring penetrate etc. (I agree completely)
Then you bump the temp to render fat, get better bark and speed things along (I agree again although I am usually waiting a bit longer than 1-2 before bump)
Then you lower the temp to slow the cook at the end to widen your "done" window and keep the internal temp down. Hmmmm.
I have not tried this on the smoker but it makes a lot of sense. Brisket is not done at a certain temp, but a function of time and temperature. Hold it long enough at 155 and connective tissues will break down just like at 195 or 205. By having it finish slower at 195 you say you prefer the texture which is probably right around where I am when I do braised non-bbq brisket which I finish in a 200 degree oven. Coincidence?
I think I will have to give this a try in the Kamado. I can set the controller to auto bring the pit temp down to a steady 195 once the meat hits 190, and just hold it there until done. Or do you slow things down earlier at a specific time or temp?
300 works...cooking temp isn't as critical as pulling it at the right time... if your previous cooks came out dry....most likely was under cooked...unless they were dry and crumbly.
gtsum
04-27-2017, 05:41 PM
I start 225-250 for 1-2 hours and then let it run at 275 or so. Have done many at 300-325 as well. Agree on the rest...longer the better imo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
smoke ninja
04-27-2017, 05:47 PM
So you are saying low(250 for 2 hours to get smoke) then hot(300-325 for 3-4 hours to get bark and render fat) then low again(back down to 250 for the finish until probe tender)?
I'm corn-fused.
Yes. But after i wrap, in paper, its like 200....or lower
So if I am following correctly...
You start low for a couple of hours to let the ring penetrate etc. (I agree completely)
Then you bump the temp to render fat, get better bark and speed things along (I agree again although I am usually waiting a bit longer than 1-2 before bump)
Then you lower the temp to slow the cook at the end to widen your "done" window and keep the internal temp down. Hmmmm.
I have not tried this on the smoker but it makes a lot of sense. Brisket is not done at a certain temp, but a function of time and temperature. Hold it long enough at 155 and connective tissues will break down just like at 195 or 205. By having it finish slower at 195 you say you prefer the texture which is probably right around where I am when I do braised non-bbq brisket which I finish in a 200 degree oven. Coincidence?
I think I will have to give this a try in the Kamado. I can set the controller to auto bring the pit temp down to a steady 195 once the meat hits 190, and just hold it there until done. Or do you slow things down earlier at a specific time or temp?
I wrap based mostly on how it looks or until i get too tired. Wrapped it goes here.
//i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/smokeninjabbq/tour%20of%20beef/20161225_134709_zpsrylmwkba.jpg (//s1121.photobucket.com/user/smokeninjabbq/media/tour%20of%20beef/20161225_134709_zpsrylmwkba.jpg.html)
I can run the rest of the night at 200 and then lower again, as low as 140 depending on preference, to hold until service. The brisket is very tender, past comp standards, but pleasantly moist.
I'm surprised the Edict (//www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136042) hasn't put in an appearance yet.
:cool:
smoke ninja
04-27-2017, 05:59 PM
Your braise example is a good one. Braising, which wrapping essentially is, is best done at lower temps. My best crock pot roast are always cooked on low.
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