- from April 2010
- to August 2012
O.P.
Hey guys,
My questions are:
1. How many amps will a Daikin 5kw & 6Kw airconditioner use?
2. Can I plug the unit straight into the powerpoint or does it have to be hardwired to the internal switchboard (not the mains which are located
in the apartment garage).
Further detail below:
I've had 3 guys provide a quote with each giving me different information on my household electrical circuit.
I am planning on installing a Daiking 5kw or 6kw machine. 1 guy says it can be plugged straight in the wall, 1 not sure and the other says no.
The plug I am using is directly wired to its own fuse/circuit breaker which feeds into a shared circuit breaker which feeds to the main household switch.
The fuse circuit breaker it feeds into states:
SPM
SMCB-4120
C20
240V
4500
IEC898
N18066
I appreciate any help you guys can give and any feedback on the Airconditioners you use.
Cheers,
Smartslacks
The new inverters use less power so you could get away with a 5kw system on an existing 10amp running 1.5mm cable circuit as long as there were no other high loads on the circuit
You have a 20 amp breaker so its more than likely if its been installed properly youve got 2.5mm cable which is rated up to 20amps depending on installation which will easily take up to an 7kw inverter or non inverter unit
should you have another high load on the circuit like a heater dryer etc you run the risk of tripping the breaker.
having said this it is always better to run a separate power circuit but in units and unconventional buildings its not alway easy or cost affective to run a new circuit
I have a Daikin 5Kw/6kw (reverse cycle non inverter) that is about 6 years old now. On the compliance label, it states the input current as being 10.7A(max).
Mine wired exactly as yours – without the GPO. It is on it's own circuit that nothing else can plug into. The a/c has it's own switch along side the outdoor
unit, which is fed by a 20A breaker off the main house circuit breaker in the switch board.
I don't believe there are any regulations preventing you using a takeoff from the GPO. Obviously though if you plug something into the GPO that draws a large amount of current, while the a/c is on, you will be getting close to the capacity of the circuit (if not exceeding it), and breakers will trip. That is why you have differing opinions as to whether you can or can't. Provided the wiring has been
done correctly and you are careful what you plug in, you should not have problems. In terms of safety and margins, your setup would not be ideal though, because you could possibly overload the circuit by plugging something into the GPO that draws 10A (it's rated capacity). That's how fires start.
smartslacks writes...
1. How many amps will a Daikin 5kw & 6Kw airconditioner use?
I presume you mean 5kW & 6kW of effective cooling & heating power & not electrical input power.
If you are talking about electrical input power then you have 5000/240 = 20.83 Amp & 6000/240 = 25 Amp rms peak load currents.
Presuming you have separate split system aircon equipment, then, both the indoor and outdoor units should be separately labelled to indicated their electrical wattage.
Below is the tech data for some Mitsubishi HI inverters(daikin dont state it in theres)three units from 6.3kw to an 8kw as you can see the 6.3kws maximum current draw is 8amps on cool and 8.1amps on on heat.Daikin would be vey similar and a 5kw unit would be less.
older non-inverter units will draw more and require larger circuits as groggy-Froggy has confirmed.
Model SRK63ZEA-S1/ SRK71ZEA-S1/ SRK80ZEA-S1
operat ional data
Cool /Heat kW..........6.3/7.1 7.1/8.0 8.0/9.0
Power Input Cool /Heat kW/h...... 1.84/1.86 2.21/2.21 2.84/2.74
EER/COP .........3.4/3.8 3.2/3.6 2.8/3.3
Energy Label Cool /Heat Stars ...........5/5 4.5/4.5 3/3.5
Cur rent Cool /Heat (max) Amp .........8.0/8.1 (12) 9.6/9.6 (14) 12.5/11.7 (16)
as long as the total load for a circuit doesnt exceed the maximum cable rating which in your case is 20amps you will be fine.
Roofwalker writes...
I presume you mean 5kW & 6kW of effective cooling & heating power & not electrical input power.
this is correct
O.P.
Hi Guys,
Thank you to everyone who replied. You have been much more helpful than the guys that have marched through my apartment in 5 minutes giving me 'detailed' a quote.
I turned off the power and measured the cabling which is 2mm thick. With reference to GPO, is this a General Power Outlet that is your everyday power point?
Just to clarify some points of my original post:
I am looking at a Daikin split system with inverter – either FTXS50J or FTXJ60J providing a cooling/heating max rated capacity of 5.0/5.9kw and 5.8/7.0Kw respectively. Their respective max power input is 2.53 and 2.81.
It is planned that both the outdoor and indoor unit will plug into the same double power point which feeds directly to its own circuit breaker which appears to be a 20amp breaker (no other appliance/light/power point is connected to this breaker).
Thanks for all your help, it is greatly appreciated, cheers!
smartslacks writes...
With reference to GPO, is this a General Power Outlet that is your everyday power point?
Yes!...Sorry for the abbreviation. I should have just said power point.
It is planned that both the outdoor and indoor unit will plug into the same double power point which feeds directly to its own circuit breaker which appears to be a 20amp breaker (no other appliance/light/power point is connected to this breaker).
There is the possibility that you could plug two appliances into that power point that draw 10A each. I am not sure about 2mm (possibly 15A) cable current rating, but it is less than 20A (2.5mm is 20A rated). You will need to be really careful because if you do, you will definitely be overloading the current carrying capacity of the cable, if the a/c is on at the same time. There are other factors, such as how the cable is laid...eg does insulation cover the cable? is it solid core or multicore? These factors reduce the capacity of the cable. So long as you keep tabs on how much current you draw from the power points you will be fine. Of course the Grey area is if someone is not aware (eg. if you later sell the house) of the circumstances does this and damage occurs to either the house or person. Culpability might be a very real issue. You would be much safer just to change the double power point to a single. It's really risky what you are doing, more-so with a double power point. Everything will be fine, unless someone is injured or dies as a result. Then the re-percussions could be life changing for all concerned, and not in a good way. These sorts of accidents are never the result of one single action, but a series of events that conspire to result in death or injury. Do you really want to be the one responsible for knocking the first domino?
O.P.
Groggy-Froggy, I think you hit the nail on the head – you cant be tight on safety. I have been thinking all day that I should have the circuit rewired rather than hoping for the best with a circuit that is border line.
A guy at Mitsubishi HI stated that their 6.3Kw R/C inverter split system requires a 25AMp circuit. So with his and your advice I am going to get the unit fixed to its own 25amp circuit.
The one thing I dont know is, does the head and outside unit run off the 1 power outlet? I asume they both dont need their own power cable to different power points/circuit breakers?
Anyway, I guess that doesnt matter now that I am getting the unit fixed to its own dedicated circuit.
Thanks again, you have been very helpful (and I hope others have learnt something too!).
Cheers,
smartslacks writes...
Anyway, I guess that doesnt matter now that I am getting the unit fixed to its own dedicated circuit.
Probably best in the long run. I'm not sure how thick your cable is on the current circuit – whether it is heavy duty enough and possibly you could simply remove the powerpoint and hardwire in the unit. Or do you need thicker cabling for the circuit?
For small 2.5kw units, etc, they can be fine on shared circuits often, but since this a large unit, it's better in the long run to be hardwired. Looks neater too.
smartslacks writes...
The one thing I dont know is, does the head and outside unit run off the 1 power outlet? I asume they both dont need their own power cable to different power points/circuit breakers?
You're correct. They both don't need separate circuits and power cables. The circuit will do both indoor and outdoor unit. The indoor unit really is basically just a fan, etc with the evaporator.
I think it depends on the brand, some units have the power going to the indoor unit, then another cable going from indoor out to the outdoor unit. Others have the power going from the meter box to the outdoor unit, then a cable in to the inside unit...
smartslacks writes...
6.3Kw R/C inverter split system requires a 25AMp circuit
absolute rubbish so i guess hes going to run 4mm cable for a unit that draws less than 10amps, The intall manuals recommend separate power circuits but 25amps is bull shit,
If the guy is telling you this Id find another installer who Knows what there doing.
If he fits a 25amp breaker on 2.5mm cable it wont meet Australian standards and could be a posible fire hazard
Sounds like an uninformed or unqualified sales rep regurgitating mixed information. Did you ask for his qualifications?
check what phase the primary is, sometimes you can hace the siituation where the main external unit runs from 3 phase where where the internal controller will likely be single phase..
talk to the installers find out what type of phase the complete unit uses..
It'll be a single phase unit the same as every other 5kw wall hung split system on the market, enen if it was three phase 25amp curcuit would not be needed
With the Daikin I have, power is wired from the switch board feed to a terminal block inside the outdoor unit. Power is then supplied to the indoor unit by a feed from the terminal block. The current drawn from the indoor unit is not very high, so the cable feeding it from the terminal block does not need to be as heavy as the main feed. The indoor unit is fed from the outdoor unit though (not from the switch board).
donaldo74 writes...
The new inverters use less power so you could get away with a 5kw system on an existing 10amp running 1.5mm cable circuit as long as there were no other high loads on the circuit
I disagree. When Inverter AirCons first start up they use about 120% of their nominal capacity to cool or heat faster than non inverter models. This is where they need the additional amps. When they have been running for a while, and achieved their goal temperature, that is when they require less amps.
I have a non inverter Panasonic 5.3 KW. It is the most powerful aircon available for a 10 amp power socket of all the brands available. The 5.3 KW Inverter model requires a 15 amp socket, for the reasons i have stated above.
O.P.
Thanks everyone for your help. Our A/C was finally installed – a 5Kw r/c Mitsubishi HI. I wont go into the detail as we had a very bad experience with the installer – lets just say we went through a 'reputable' large company, 3 letters, starts with A and ends in L.
Anyway, basically we have had our 5Kw machine running straight from the power socket. When it was being installed we were told that running the 5Kw machine through the powerpoint will not be an issue.
I'll let you know if the house burns donwn!
Thanks to everyone for your help, and no thanks to the company who was nothing but trouble!
Cheers!!!
smartslacks writes...
Anyway, basically we have had our 5Kw machine running straight from the power socket. When it was being installed we were told that running the 5Kw machine through the powerpoint will not be an issue.
Best practice to run dedicated breaker on a unit of this size. If you're running that circuit at load you breaker will trip out. Did they put an isolation switch on the external box?. I'd call your local sparky and ask him to run a dedicated circuit to the board for good measure, nothing worse than having breakers trip because someone puts the kettle and sandwich grill when you're running the AC.
Seems to be some confusion here. A 5kw unit does not draw 5kw, it means its outputting the equivalent of 5kw heating/cooling.
If you need to know if its safe to run of a standard GPO simply go to the side of your outdoor unit and on the sticker it should say maximum current draw in amps (a) or input power.
If its 10a or 2400w then its fine for a normal 10a gpo. Id have a guess that a standard 5.5kw system would draw about 6-8 amps.
Jason132 writes...
A 5kw unit does not draw 5kw, it means its outputting the equivalent of 5kw heating/cooling.
I don't think that is entirely correct. It depends what the manufacturer's definitition is. Some manufacturer's might quote output in order to make their units look better.
We have a Daikin 6 kW unit (as shown in Daikin spec sheet). However, it generates about 18 kW of heating or cooliing.
Roofwalker writes...
I don't think that is entirely correct. It depends what the manufacturer's definitition is. Some manufacturer's might quote output in order to make their units look better.
The rated capacity of the unit in spec sheets is the output or cooling/heating capacity of the unit. A 5kW system is rated at 5kW cooling capacity and usually a higher heating capacity. The input is rated elsewhere in the specs and is used to provide the EER and COP levels.
We have a Daikin 6 kW unit (as shown in Daikin spec sheet). However, it generates about 18 kW of heating or cooling.
The current Daikin 18kW cooling capacity (20kW heating) is rated at 18kW cooling and draws 5.68kW input power. But it is not rated at 5.65kW it is rated at 18kW.
your talking about the daikin 18kw unit, which in fact only draws 6kw, which is exactly what i was saying.
Yes I was commenting on Roofwalkers comment below yours
sorry I should have quoted, I was referring to roofwalkers post not yours :)
smartslacks writes...
I turned off the power and measured the cabling which is 2mm thick
Referring back to this comment for a moment, you are aware that cable size is measured as a cross sectional area and not diameter? Only the conductor is measured, not the insulation.
It's important to measure accurately, I've always used a micrometer.
If the conductor is a single core and exactly 2mm "think" [I would say 'diameter"] then the maths [CSA = pi x the radius squared] indicates the cable to be 3.14mm which is a most unusual size.
O.P.
I just realised I hadn't thanked everyone for replying to this question a while back... so thanks to all. All comments were very helpful.
In the end we could run it off the standard mains. The sub-contractor (an 1x man Asian electrician) was very very helpful. Unfortunately he was caught court in the middle of my wife and I and AGL Chatswood who we went through. The senior sales guy there was an absolute pig to my wife – "what would you know, you are only a housewife". That was just one of the outstanding comments from a bloke who actually acknowledged during our ongoing "discussions" that he lied during the quotation process. He only backed down when I called his bluff and agreed he could come an pick up the unit that afternoon with a full refund – funny that!
Anyway, we have moved on (sorta!) and happy with our purchase... and very happy with everyone who helped online. I wouldn't buy from an AGL shop again though.
Thanks again everyone!